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Elimination of CO Off gassing from Stored Wood Pellets Webinar
WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en
00:00:00.000 Oh 00:00:02.60000:00:02.610 all right good afternoon everybody and 00:00:04.63900:00:04.649 welcome to this free webinar brought to 00:00:07.49000:00:07.500 you by the biomass thermal energy 00:00:09.08000:00:09.090 Council and the Alliance for green heat 00:00:10.87900:00:10.889 my name is Peter Thompson from the 00:00:13.06900:00:13.079 biomass thermal energy Council I will be 00:00:14.83900:00:14.849 your moderator today as we work through 00:00:16.97000:00:16.980 this elimination of carbon monoxide 00:00:19.31000:00:19.320 off-gassing and stored wood poets 00:00:21.65000:00:21.660 webinar before we get started I just 00:00:25.07000:00:25.080 want to go through a few housekeeping 00:00:26.06000:00:26.070 items as you can see on the screen there 00:00:29.54000:00:29.550 are two ways to access the audio for 00:00:31.49000:00:31.500 this webinar you can use your telephone 00:00:33.02000:00:33.030 landline or cell or you can use the mics 00:00:35.69000:00:35.700 and speakers to your computer if you're 00:00:38.00000:00:38.010 having any issues hearing me through 00:00:40.61000:00:40.620 either of those options I would 00:00:42.20000:00:42.210 recommend switching to the other option 00:00:44.09000:00:44.100 and maybe the quality will be a little 00:00:45.38000:00:45.390 bit better for you as we move through 00:00:47.84000:00:47.850 the webinar as we have the presentations 00:00:51.05000:00:51.060 going on I would encourage anybody if 00:00:52.70000:00:52.710 you have any questions to use the 00:00:54.13900:00:54.149 questions panel on the side menu to type 00:00:58.34000:00:58.350 in your questions there we will get to 00:01:00.02000:01:00.030 all of your questions at the very end of 00:01:01.61000:01:01.620 the webinar in the Q&A session with our 00:01:04.10000:01:04.110 presenters Kellie Ramsey and dr. Phillip 00:01:06.64900:01:06.659 Hockey and I guess that's it for the 00:01:12.94000:01:12.950 film's there the agenda today the 00:01:16.78900:01:16.799 welcome introduction which we've just 00:01:18.23000:01:18.240 done I'll give you a brief overview of 00:01:20.45000:01:20.460 the biomass thermal energy Council and 00:01:22.37000:01:22.380 John Ackerley will be giving you an 00:01:24.62000:01:24.630 overview of the Alliance for green Heat 00:01:26.14900:01:26.159 and then we'll get into the nitty-gritty 00:01:28.39900:01:28.409 of our webinar today with the 00:01:30.26000:01:30.270 elimination of Co off gassing from 00:01:32.71900:01:32.729 stored pellets presentation by dr. 00:01:34.64000:01:34.650 Philip Oakey and then we'll move into an 00:01:36.85900:01:36.869 industry perspective and involvement 00:01:38.66000:01:38.670 from the Cure and renewable energy from 00:01:41.53900:01:41.549 Kelly Ramsey after the conclusion of 00:01:44.27000:01:44.280 those two presentations we'll move into 00:01:45.98000:01:45.990 a question and answer session moderated 00:01:48.32000:01:48.330 by John Ackerley and myself all right so 00:01:52.01000:01:52.020 get started the biomass thermal energy 00:01:54.05000:01:54.060 Council we are a national trade 00:01:55.49000:01:55.500 association for moderate the modern with 00:01:57.20000:01:57.210 heating industry we have 60 plus members 00:02:00.20000:02:00.210 and associates across the US and Canada 00:02:02.45000:02:02.460 for fuel producers manufacturers sellers 00:02:04.52000:02:04.530 installers and we engage in technical 00:02:06.56000:02:06.570 codes and standards development as well 00:02:08.30000:02:08.310 as well as public advocacy and outreach 00:02:11.02900:02:11.039 and education to the general public if 00:02:14.08900:02:14.099 you're interested in getting involved 00:02:15.38000:02:15.390 with the Buy 00:02:16.09000:02:16.100 thermal energy council and any of our 00:02:18.21000:02:18.220 membership offers or our government 00:02:21.67000:02:21.680 affairs fund that we've just launched in 00:02:23.56000:02:23.570 the past couple weeks you can contact 00:02:25.90000:02:25.910 myself or executive director Jeff 00:02:27.76000:02:27.770 surface with any questions you may have 00:02:29.29000:02:29.300 and we can help you get set up and 00:02:32.14000:02:32.150 hooked into the biomass thermal energy 00:02:34.63000:02:34.640 Council and any way that you would are 00:02:37.21000:02:37.220 interested in and with that I'm going to 00:02:39.49000:02:39.500 hand things off to John Ackerley the 00:02:41.76000:02:41.770 executive director of the Alliance for 00:02:43.57000:02:43.580 green hey John take it away 00:02:45.30000:02:45.310 ok thanks Peter and thank you to Phil 00:02:48.40000:02:48.410 and Kelly for doing this but all you who 00:02:50.23000:02:50.240 are on the phone lines for green heat is 00:02:52.99000:02:53.000 a small nonprofit were based in Maryland 00:02:54.88000:02:54.890 were founded in 2009 right around the 00:02:57.79000:02:57.800 same time as B Tech and we focus on 00:03:00.10000:03:00.110 residential biomass and our goal is to 00:03:03.55000:03:03.560 promote cleaner and more efficient 00:03:05.67000:03:05.680 residential biomass heating we mostly 00:03:08.32000:03:08.330 focus on stoves which doesn't pellet 00:03:10.30000:03:10.310 stoves but also uh boilers and to a 00:03:13.36000:03:13.370 lesser extent institutional scale by 00:03:17.14000:03:17.150 mass feeding and we try to you know 00:03:20.53000:03:20.540 advocate for consumers we are nonprofit 00:03:22.18000:03:22.190 so we don't represent industry per se we 00:03:24.76000:03:24.770 work with all stakeholders with a real 00:03:27.22000:03:27.230 focus on the people who use the 00:03:30.34000:03:30.350 technology next slide 00:03:35.61000:03:35.620 and our big event is here is the list of 00:03:39.93000:03:39.940 design challenge the fourth year we've 00:03:42.00000:03:42.010 had it could be on the National Mall in 00:03:43.50000:03:43.510 November I wouldn't buy anyone who can 00:03:46.55900:03:46.569 to attend it some has two categories 00:03:50.64000:03:50.650 this year their automated stoves and 00:03:52.77000:03:52.780 stoves that produce electricity and we 00:03:57.42000:03:57.430 very excited we have 12 stoves in the 00:04:02.72900:04:02.739 competition and they will be filled with 00:04:05.30900:04:05.319 my very innovative very new that's very 00:04:07.92000:04:07.930 little like it on the market today and 00:04:09.83000:04:09.840 part of the goal of this is to see that 00:04:13.77000:04:13.780 there's a lot more of these stoves on 00:04:16.71000:04:16.720 the market in a few years so patent 00:04:19.53000:04:19.540 yeah that's turned over to film so I'm 00:04:31.46900:04:31.479 Phil Oakey I'm was at Clarkson 00:04:34.20000:04:34.210 University for a long time move down to 00:04:36.33000:04:36.340 Rochester about a year ago was still 00:04:38.73000:04:38.740 using my clerks and email so those of 00:04:41.85000:04:41.860 you who may have an interest you may 00:04:43.71000:04:43.720 want to note down the email at the 00:04:46.17000:04:46.180 bottom of the screen there I'm more than 00:04:48.21000:04:48.220 happy to answer questions or interact 00:04:50.94000:04:50.950 with you afterwards to talk about the 00:04:54.65900:04:54.669 process and the problem next slide 00:04:58.32000:04:58.330 please 00:04:59.99000:05:00.000 and you know as any faculty member I 00:05:03.75000:05:03.760 don't actually do the work I sit in my 00:05:05.85000:05:05.860 office and write proposals and papers 00:05:07.98000:05:07.990 and reports so post Docs Lydia and 00:05:12.77000:05:12.780 Muhammad and Stephanie and grad students 00:05:16.80000:05:16.810 shinwoo and fellow faculty member Allen 00:05:19.74000:05:19.750 roster who did a lot of the field work 00:05:22.29000:05:22.300 and lab work that we're reporting here 00:05:24.81000:05:24.820 they certainly want to give a big thanks 00:05:27.39000:05:27.400 to Pat Curren and her renewable energy 00:05:29.79000:05:29.800 for their collaboration they've been 00:05:31.89000:05:31.900 invaluable in this and of course to New 00:05:34.74000:05:34.750 York State Energy Research and 00:05:36.21000:05:36.220 Development Authority for the financial 00:05:38.01000:05:38.020 support that allowed us to do it next 00:05:40.89000:05:40.900 slide please 00:05:43.13000:05:43.140 so you know this as I'm sure most of you 00:05:47.27900:05:47.289 are aware the northeastern United 00:05:49.20000:05:49.210 States is one where we still burn a lot 00:05:52.05000:05:52.060 of number two oil for space heating and 00:05:54.59000:05:54.600 have a lot of residual wood that was 00:05:59.04000:05:59.050 actually planted for pulp and paper and 00:06:02.39000:06:02.400 in many cases the pulp and paper 00:06:04.89000:06:04.900 industry has dried up so there's 00:06:07.67000:06:07.680 significant forest reserves out there 00:06:10.52900:06:10.539 available that could be harvested and 00:06:13.33900:06:13.349 allow us to have much improved economic 00:06:17.55000:06:17.560 development within the region of 00:06:20.33000:06:20.340 northern New York northern New England 00:06:23.93000:06:23.940 by heating with renewable wood next 00:06:28.98000:06:28.990 slide please so about ten years ago as 00:06:34.35000:06:34.360 fuel prices were starting to rise and 00:06:37.58900:06:37.599 there was increased interest in burning 00:06:40.58900:06:40.599 wood my Sirte was also interested in 00:06:43.46900:06:43.479 making sure that the wood was burned 00:06:45.68900:06:45.699 well such that we you know could keep us 00:06:50.46000:06:50.470 reasonably sustainable would supply and 00:06:54.14900:06:54.159 at the same time reduced the amount of 00:06:56.85000:06:56.860 pollution being generated by a lot of 00:07:00.96000:07:00.970 the inefficient appliances that were in 00:07:04.14000:07:04.150 use at the time and so they started to 00:07:07.98000:07:07.990 make an effort to bring in European wood 00:07:13.64900:07:13.659 burning technology particularly pellet 00:07:15.71900:07:15.729 for new technology and as a result of 00:07:19.56000:07:19.570 that a number of wood pellet boilers 00:07:21.65900:07:21.669 were installed in schools and museums 00:07:24.20900:07:24.219 across the north country with NYSERDA 00:07:27.62900:07:27.639 support next slide please 00:07:31.01000:07:31.020 and so in August 2012 NYSERDA was 00:07:36.08900:07:36.099 alerted by the New York State Department 00:07:38.87900:07:38.889 of Health of out of paper reporting 00:07:41.12000:07:41.130 incidents in Europe of people going into 00:07:43.77000:07:43.780 large storage pellet bit pellet storage 00:07:46.70900:07:46.719 bins encountering very high 00:07:48.99000:07:49.000 concentrations of carbon monoxide and 00:07:51.56000:07:51.570 dying next slide please 00:07:55.93900:07:55.949 this is the paper 00:07:57.86000:07:57.870 having just put a wood pellet boiler 00:08:00.47000:08:00.480 into a middle school with the old coal 00:08:02.96000:08:02.970 bin under three classrooms being the 00:08:05.45000:08:05.460 storage area for 30 tons of wood pellets 00:08:09.07000:08:09.080 NYSERDA was concerned that they might 00:08:11.36000:08:11.370 have in fact created a hazard that was 00:08:15.34000:08:15.350 affecting the schoolchildren and asked 00:08:18.59000:08:18.600 us to see if we could look into it 00:08:21.29000:08:21.300 and so we developed a program to monitor 00:08:25.68900:08:25.699 bins but let's first review some of the 00:08:29.45000:08:29.460 other literature that's out there next 00:08:31.64000:08:31.65000:08:33.88000:08:33.890 turns out there's actually a more 00:08:36.52900:08:36.539 extensive literature but it didn't seem 00:08:38.83900:08:38.849 to have registered very strongly with a 00:08:41.08900:08:41.099 lot of people so next slide please 00:08:45.01000:08:45.020 particularly come back is Sweden back in 00:08:49.31000:08:49.320 the early 2000s 00:08:51.62000:08:51.630 Edberg urban Svedberg published a series 00:08:56.24000:08:56.250 of papers when the first was on the 00:08:59.09000:08:59.100 emission of volatile organic compounds 00:09:01.64000:09:01.650 particularly hexanol as well as carbon 00:09:04.37000:09:04.380 monoxide from large and store 00:09:06.17000:09:06.180 small-scale storage of pellets and 00:09:09.88000:09:09.890 recognize that hexanol could be 00:09:12.74000:09:12.750 associated with the potential for 00:09:16.31000:09:16.320 occupational and domestic health hazards 00:09:18.79000:09:18.800 next slide please 00:09:20.50000:09:20.510 and so also showed that lumber drawing 00:09:26.59000:09:26.600 also tended to produce hexon alley 00:09:29.44900:09:29.459 carbon monoxide not just from wood 00:09:31.97000:09:31.980 pellets but basically for any wood 00:09:34.79000:09:34.800 process but it depended on the amount of 00:09:38.54000:09:38.550 surface area avoid that that drove the 00:09:41.42000:09:41.430 amount of emissions that were being seen 00:09:45.65000:09:45.660 now they suggested that the carbon 00:09:48.19900:09:48.209 monoxide and xnl were formed by the ant 00:09:50.78000:09:50.790 by the auto oxidation of fatty acids in 00:09:55.31000:09:55.320 the wood and we'll talk more about that 00:09:56.75000:09:56.760 in a bit next slide please 00:10:02.71000:10:02.720 turns out in the mid 2000s there were a 00:10:06.62000:10:06.630 series of ocean-going vessels that were 00:10:10.85000:10:10.860 shipping 00:10:12.16000:10:12.170 primarily from Canada to Sweden and 00:10:15.16000:10:15.170 resulted in people going into the holes 00:10:17.69000:10:17.700 before they were well ventilated and a 00:10:21.86000:10:21.870 series of deaths occurring in several 00:10:27.25900:10:27.269 these even though again there were 00:10:28.85000:10:28.860 actually guidance documents out there 00:10:30.98000:10:30.990 suggesting the need for substantial 00:10:35.06000:10:35.070 ventilation of the holes before going 00:10:37.19000:10:37.200 into them next slide please 00:10:40.24000:10:40.250 and so five fatalities within a two year 00:10:46.85000:10:46.860 period and again in the adequately 00:10:51.05000:10:51.060 ventilated stairwells communicating with 00:10:53.30000:10:53.310 the cargo hold its next slide please so 00:10:57.46000:10:57.470 over the last 15 years or so 00:11:02.87000:11:02.880 there have been 14 reported deaths and 00:11:05.76900:11:05.779 the problem is of course we generally 00:11:08.26900:11:08.279 store pellets in occupied structures and 00:11:10.85000:11:10.860 so there was a potential for exposure 00:11:13.55000:11:13.560 and it's both I certainly then asked us 00:11:16.46000:11:16.470 to see if there were unsafe 00:11:18.50000:11:18.510 concentrations of carbon monoxide in use 00:11:21.47000:11:21.480 pelicans that had been particularly 00:11:24.01900:11:24.029 those that have been installed as part 00:11:25.88000:11:25.890 of their demonstration projects and that 00:11:29.09000:11:29.100 particularly this installation under 00:11:31.06900:11:31.079 middle school classrooms so next slide 00:11:34.16000:11:34.170 please so we we set up carbon monoxide 00:11:39.50000:11:39.510 monitoring in a residential basement in 00:11:41.96000:11:41.970 Messina where they had a 10 ton bag 00:11:45.16000:11:45.170 pellet storage facility which we'll see 00:11:48.92000:11:48.930 later in Kelly's slides three locations 00:11:52.73000:11:52.740 in the Milan middle school Saranac Lake 00:11:54.94900:11:54.959 Elementary School which had an outside 00:11:57.43900:11:57.449 silo and a couple of systems we had at 00:12:02.56900:12:02.579 Clarkson a 20 kW energy cabin and 150 kW 00:12:07.93900:12:07.949 Hammett pallet boiler and then at the 00:12:12.19900:12:12.209 wild center in Tupper Lake next slide 00:12:15.82900:12:15.83900:12:21.09000:12:21.100 so here's the residential back please 00:12:24.78000:12:24.790 here's the residential slide which is 00:12:29.25000:12:29.260 showing you that in this basement 00:12:32.33000:12:32.340 residential basement we were in fact 00:12:36.05000:12:36.060 periodically particularly when in fresh 00:12:38.46000:12:38.470 bullets were put into the storage been 00:12:41.90000:12:41.910 seeing exceedances of benign ppm ASHRAE 00:12:47.01000:12:47.020 guidance for indoor carbon monoxide 00:12:49.44000:12:49.450 levels and so next slide please and so 00:12:56.13000:12:56.140 you can see their number of values so 00:12:57.99000:12:58.000 for nine averaged on eight hours and as 00:13:01.47000:13:01.480 you say this is the same guidance as the 00:13:03.63000:13:03.640 this guidance is the same as the max for 00:13:06.39000:13:06.400 Co and so although these don't really 00:13:09.66000:13:09.670 represent an acute hazard to the people 00:13:12.84000:13:12.850 living there they do represent an 00:13:15.63000:13:15.640 unwarranted health hazard this is 00:13:17.79000:13:17.800 particularly dis acceptable individuals 00:13:19.98000:13:19.990 and so it's it's certainly an 00:13:22.59000:13:22.600 undesirable outcome next slide please 00:13:31.04000:13:31.050 so we also then looked at a couple of 00:13:34.23000:13:34.240 occupational settings for particularly a 00:13:36.78000:13:36.790 large you know these these storage bins 00:13:40.44000:13:40.450 are occupational settings the one the 00:13:43.44000:13:43.450 silo at middle school or elementary 00:13:46.77000:13:46.780 school the pellet being under the 00:13:49.77000:13:49.780 classrooms in the middle school and the 00:13:52.07000:13:52.080 storage facility at the while center and 00:13:56.03000:13:56.040 I'm not going to show you the details 00:13:58.47000:13:58.480 there but we in several cases wind up 00:14:01.86000:14:01.870 with concentrations exceeding 50 ppm 00:14:05.13000:14:05.140 which is the osha regulatory standard so 00:14:09.30000:14:09.310 therefore these then become confined 00:14:11.76000:14:11.770 spaces and you have a little school 00:14:14.40000:14:14.410 district like Saranac Lake having to set 00:14:16.65000:14:16.660 up a confined space protocol to training 00:14:20.40000:14:20.410 new permitting and all of the other 00:14:23.73000:14:23.740 hassles that go along with a confined 00:14:25.98000:14:25.990 space and that's again certainly going 00:14:29.97000:14:29.980 to inhibit people from utilizing wood 00:14:33.72000:14:33.730 pellets for heating 00:14:34.91000:14:34.920 when they have this extra hassle and 00:14:39.09000:14:39.100 expense to to set up these processes 00:14:41.85000:14:41.86000:14:45.62000:14:45.630 so we've published all of this material 00:14:49.38000:14:49.390 a couple of years ago again anybody who 00:14:52.35000:14:52.360 wants a copy of these papers just send 00:14:55.11000:14:55.120 me an email and I'd be happy to email 00:14:57.12000:14:57.130 you copies of these back next slide 00:15:00.99000:15:01.00000:15:03.50000:15:03.510 now then a couple of years ago the 00:15:07.41000:15:07.420 question came up well all these previous 00:15:10.77000:15:10.780 studies have been of all pellets but you 00:15:14.01000:15:14.020 know a large fraction of the people who 00:15:15.96000:15:15.970 are using pellets are buying them the 00:15:17.82000:15:17.830 40-pound bags typically a few tons at a 00:15:22.05000:15:22.060 time and storing them in the basement or 00:15:24.06000:15:24.070 the garage so is that a problem because 00:15:29.22000:15:29.230 again the bags aren't sealed because in 00:15:33.06000:15:33.070 order to be able to stack them you're 00:15:35.85000:15:35.860 going to have to have them perforated so 00:15:38.91000:15:38.920 the air can come out of them as one bag 00:15:41.46000:15:41.470 is stacked on your mother again you'll 00:15:44.40000:15:44.410 see pictures of this in in Kelly's 00:15:47.22000:15:47.230 slides later next slide please 00:15:50.42000:15:50.430 so do bag pellets off gas sufficient 00:15:54.24000:15:54.250 carbon monoxide and carbon al Jackson al 00:15:57.30000:15:57.310 formaldehyde other things to be a 00:15:59.13000:15:59.140 problem 00:15:59.88000:15:59.890 so we went to college storage warehouse 00:16:04.47000:16:04.480 next slide please and you'll see that we 00:16:10.11000:16:10.120 again published this material at the end 00:16:12.27000:16:12.280 of last year in the beginning of this 00:16:13.71000:16:13.720 year for Co and currently aldehydes next 00:16:17.76000:16:17.770 slide keep going on ok so here is the 00:16:26.76000:16:26.770 carbon monoxide data and again the 00:16:29.99000:16:30.000 dashed line the dashed red line is the 00:16:33.21000:16:33.220 50 ppm osha regulatory standard for 00:16:37.98000:16:37.990 eight-hour exposures and you see that 00:16:40.41000:16:40.420 these are being exceeded at various 00:16:43.44000:16:43.450 times over this time interval and so we 00:16:48.09000:16:48.100 do 00:16:48.43000:16:48.440 have been an issue with regard to the 00:16:54.30000:16:54.310 exposure of people these are measured at 00:16:58.11900:16:58.129 several locations in the warehouse at 00:17:02.13900:17:02.149 different heights above the floor and so 00:17:06.34000:17:06.350 you can see that we are getting then a 00:17:10.35000:17:10.360 situation where this technically violate 00:17:13.87000:17:13.880 social regulations or would require it 00:17:16.89900:17:16.909 to be defined as a confined space next 00:17:21.06900:17:21.07900:17:22.89000:17:22.900 again we've also looked at the carbon 00:17:25.44900:17:25.459 meals we're presenting them in a little 00:17:27.52000:17:27.530 different way and several different time 00:17:30.03900:17:30.049 frames so the black is the first set of 00:17:35.23000:17:35.240 measurements the gray is the middle gray 00:17:37.99000:17:38.000 is the next and then finally the third 00:17:40.60000:17:40.610 sets you can see over time the carbonyls 00:17:43.63000:17:43.640 are increasing the top of the bar is the 00:17:46.99000:17:47.000 average concentration the error bar is 00:17:50.95000:17:50.960 the standard deviation and you can see 00:17:53.98000:17:53.990 that we again are getting some values 00:17:57.52000:17:57.530 that are exceeding the osha action level 00:18:00.54900:18:00.559 or formaldehyde there are no problems 00:18:04.02900:18:04.039 with any of the others although there is 00:18:08.07000:18:08.080 potentially some sensory irritation 00:18:11.52900:18:11.539 coming from the Hexen al if people were 00:18:15.27900:18:15.289 to see spending extended times in there 00:18:17.79900:18:17.809 so there's clearly a potential 00:18:21.19000:18:21.200 occupational problem also that you might 00:18:24.64000:18:24.650 have at your mill depending on how well 00:18:27.15900:18:27.169 ventilated your pellet storage area yes 00:18:29.83000:18:29.84000:18:32.76000:18:32.770 so we also then did a series of 00:18:36.13000:18:36.140 laboratory studies next slide in which 00:18:40.96000:18:40.970 we took a 20 gallon drum poured in 00:18:48.53900:18:48.549 pellets to fill it about half way and 00:18:52.77000:18:52.780 then measure the carbon monoxide in 00:18:56.68000:18:56.690 there is a function of time next slide 00:18:59.13900:18:59.14900:19:01.97000:19:01.980 and you can see that the top curves 00:19:04.66900:19:04.679 there are for softwood and for blended 00:19:08.60000:19:08.610 pellets which were mostly softwood and 00:19:11.24000:19:11.250 then the lower set of curves are for 00:19:13.78900:19:13.799 hardwood now you can see that after 15 00:19:16.90900:19:16.919 or so days sealed up in there we're 00:19:20.21000:19:20.220 getting of the order of 800 to a 00:19:22.37000:19:22.380 thousand ppm of carbon monoxide with 00:19:25.76000:19:25.770 soft woods and something of the order of 00:19:27.86000:19:27.870 400 ppm of carbon monoxide with the 00:19:32.48000:19:32.490 hardwood so clearly we're getting 00:19:35.32000:19:35.330 significant amounts of carbon monoxide 00:19:37.43000:19:37.440 off gassing from these pellets next 00:19:40.49000:19:40.50000:19:42.94000:19:42.950 so we also then did bagged pellets so we 00:19:47.75000:19:47.760 could take two bags of pellets put them 00:19:50.48000:19:50.490 in a 55-gallon drum with again a carbon 00:19:53.96000:19:53.970 monoxide monitor and next slide and 00:20:00.98000:20:00.990 again you can see that that depending on 00:20:04.82000:20:04.830 the temperature and the time we can also 00:20:06.95000:20:06.960 still get up to of the order of a 00:20:09.35000:20:09.360 thousand ppm of CO so the bag itself is 00:20:13.73000:20:13.740 not precluding effective off gassing of 00:20:17.90000:20:17.910 the carbon monoxide next slide please 00:20:22.18000:20:22.190 so this is very puzzling you know why in 00:20:26.60000:20:26.610 the world you know there had been this 00:20:28.34000:20:28.350 hypothesis that it was the fatty acids 00:20:31.13000:20:31.140 but but these hard so next slide so as I 00:20:39.47000:20:39.480 say they several groups including 00:20:41.60000:20:41.610 Svedberg and these people at the 00:20:43.54900:20:43.559 University of British Columbia suggest 00:20:45.35000:20:45.360 that it was Auto oxidation in the fatty 00:20:47.18000:20:47.190 acids that's what causes your food to go 00:20:49.70000:20:49.710 bad you think about things like olive 00:20:52.37000:20:52.380 oil hardening or linseed oil hardening 00:20:56.09000:20:56.100 that's all from auto oxidation but we 00:21:00.14000:21:00.150 had been developing methods for looking 00:21:02.36000:21:02.370 at fatty acids as part of another 00:21:04.37000:21:04.380 project we had ongoing in the lab so 00:21:07.34000:21:07.35000:21:10.18000:21:10.190 and the problem is 00:21:12.49000:21:12.500 that can't exert enough fatty acids 00:21:15.61000:21:15.620 there to explain more than three to 00:21:17.59000:21:17.600 eight percent of the mass of the carbon 00:21:19.75000:21:19.760 monoxide so it cannot be the what's 00:21:25.06000:21:25.070 responsible for the bulk of the carbon 00:21:28.39000:21:28.400 monoxide it certainly is responsible for 00:21:30.58000:21:30.590 the hexa now so you know wood is 00:21:33.82000:21:33.830 cellulose hemicellulose and lignin that 00:21:36.49000:21:36.500 we typically determine with thermal 00:21:38.44000:21:38.450 gravimetric analysis next slide please 00:21:40.78000:21:40.790 [Music] 00:21:42.84000:21:42.850 so if you can click click through this 00:21:48.82000:21:48.830 there should be as several arrows next 00:21:51.43000:21:51.440 slide yep so there is the hemi cellulose 00:21:56.50000:21:56.510 peak next is the cellulose peak and next 00:22:02.71000:22:02.720 is the lignin peak so we had a TGA 00:22:06.52000:22:06.530 upstairs so I sent Lydia up to to do 00:22:10.03000:22:10.040 some TGA on our pellets next slide and 00:22:14.83000:22:14.840 you can see we're seeing similar kinds 00:22:17.32000:22:17.330 of things we don't have quite as good 00:22:18.85000:22:18.860 resolution you know everybody publishes 00:22:21.88000:22:21.890 the best figures they ever had so next 00:22:25.90000:22:25.910 slide so if we let it sit for six weeks 00:22:29.65000:22:29.660 you can see that that there is a 00:22:31.57000:22:31.580 difference in shape but if we 00:22:33.16000:22:33.170 superimpose those two next slide you can 00:22:37.96000:22:37.970 see that it's the hemi cellulose that's 00:22:40.18000:22:40.190 going away that the cellulose is 00:22:43.72000:22:43.730 basically the same the lignin is 00:22:45.70000:22:45.710 basically the same so aging causes the 00:22:49.72000:22:49.730 hemi cause the Hemi cellulose to get 00:22:53.44000:22:53.450 oxidized but that's very strange next 00:22:56.32000:22:56.33000:22:59.98000:22:59.990 because Henry cellulose is not going to 00:23:02.35000:23:02.360 react with oxygen at room temperature 00:23:04.63000:23:04.640 there has to be a stronger oxidizer that 00:23:07.57000:23:07.580 would attack it it's it's too stable a 00:23:11.11000:23:11.120 molecule next slide please 00:23:15.06000:23:15.070 so 00:23:17.40000:23:17.410 could suggest that it could be reacting 00:23:20.13000:23:20.140 with something like hydroxyl radical 00:23:22.44000:23:22.450 which is the strong oxidizer in the 00:23:24.98000:23:24.990 ambient atmosphere but the question is 00:23:28.98000:23:28.990 how do we get a strong oxidizer like 00:23:31.35000:23:31.360 that in a barrel closed up note sunlight 00:23:35.49000:23:35.500 no heating and so on so however the 00:23:41.40000:23:41.410 hexanol says that we are getting Auto 00:23:44.13000:23:44.140 oxidation and it turns out if we go to 00:23:47.67000:23:47.680 the literature and look at the mechanism 00:23:50.04000:23:50.050 for Auto oxidation part of what happens 00:23:53.73000:23:53.740 there in a very complex chemistry which 00:23:56.31000:23:56.320 I didn't put the slide up because it 00:23:58.23000:23:58.240 would make everybody pass out we produce 00:24:02.07000:24:02.080 a strong would produce hydroxyl radicals 00:24:04.77000:24:04.780 so we have a mechanism for producing 00:24:06.90000:24:06.910 hydroxyl radicals so what we can think 00:24:09.84000:24:09.850 about this is a two-stage process the 00:24:12.60000:24:12.610 auto oxidation of the fatty acid 00:24:14.79000:24:14.800 produces the hydroxyl the hydroxyl can 00:24:17.58000:24:17.590 then undergo a chain reaction with the 00:24:21.54000:24:21.550 Hemi cellulose to produce the carbon 00:24:24.57000:24:24.580 monoxide we're seeing next slide please 00:24:28.61000:24:28.620 now we can check that because we can put 00:24:32.16000:24:32.170 in something which would react faster 00:24:34.41000:24:34.420 with the hydroxyl and then hopefully 00:24:36.81000:24:36.820 then make the carbon monoxide go down or 00:24:40.65000:24:40.660 go away next slide please 00:24:43.64000:24:43.650 and so if we put in a short chain 00:24:47.40000:24:47.410 alcohol a butanol you can see that we 00:24:50.49000:24:50.500 reduce the carbon monoxide to roughly a 00:24:55.62000:24:55.630 third of what it would be without it 00:24:58.97000:24:58.98000:25:01.94000:25:01.950 so we can and think about this as being 00:25:08.19000:25:08.200 this two-stage process and that gives us 00:25:10.68000:25:10.690 then the opportunity to fix it because 00:25:14.07000:25:14.080 if we then react the fatty acids which 00:25:20.43000:25:20.440 have a double bond in them with ozone we 00:25:24.42000:25:24.430 will break them down before they get 00:25:27.42000:25:27.430 formed into a pellet or on the surface 00:25:29.61000:25:29.620 of the pellet before they go 00:25:31.23000:25:31.240 to storage and potentially eliminate the 00:25:37.65000:25:37.660 problem next slide please 00:25:39.77000:25:39.780 so if we expose pellets overnight to 00:25:42.96000:25:42.970 ozone you can see that we've 00:25:44.43000:25:44.440 substantially reduced the carbon 00:25:46.86000:25:46.870 monoxide the red one and again if we put 00:25:50.49000:25:50.500 in the hydroxy hydroxyl radical 00:25:54.77000:25:54.780 scavenger it goes down even further but 00:25:58.71000:25:58.720 we haven't fully eliminated it because 00:26:01.46000:26:01.470 part of the interior of the pellets then 00:26:05.52000:26:05.530 didn't get exposed to the ozone and 00:26:08.25000:26:08.260 those fatty acids didn't get decomposed 00:26:11.00000:26:11.01000:26:14.66000:26:14.670 so what we can do is to have to have 00:26:18.72000:26:18.730 more surface area to passivate next 00:26:21.90000:26:21.910 slide and so we can run up and get the 00:26:28.35000:26:28.360 ground wood fiber before it goes into 00:26:30.29900:26:30.309 the press and expose it to high ozone 00:26:33.56000:26:33.570 next and now you see that the treated 00:26:39.77000:26:39.780 material produces no carbon monoxide so 00:26:44.85000:26:44.860 that gives us then the real promise of a 00:26:47.88000:26:47.890 process process that will eliminate the 00:26:51.78000:26:51.790 hexanol emissions and the carbon 00:26:55.38000:26:55.390 monoxide emissions next slide please 00:26:59.84000:26:59.850 so what we need to do then is to be able 00:27:03.81000:27:03.820 to react the fibre with ozone as it 00:27:06.24000:27:06.250 moves through the pellet mill process 00:27:09.48000:27:09.490 next slide and so in order to do that we 00:27:13.83000:27:13.840 have to know how fast this reaction is 00:27:16.04900:27:16.059 how well we have to mix things all that 00:27:18.27000:27:18.280 kind of good stuff 00:27:19.14000:27:19.150 so we acquired an auger and added ozone 00:27:23.66900:27:23.679 so that we could do some laboratory 00:27:25.71000:27:25.720 experiments to try and see how much 00:27:28.47000:27:28.480 ozone how much time was needed next 00:27:30.87000:27:30.880 slide so there is our laboratory auger 00:27:36.12000:27:36.13000:27:37.62000:27:37.630 and there it is in the laboratory so the 00:27:42.44000:27:42.450 fibre is down at the bottom it all 00:27:45.63000:27:45.640 and the material then dumps into the 00:27:48.24000:27:48.250 black can we have an ozone generator and 00:27:51.36000:27:51.370 ozone monitor under the table on which 00:27:54.78000:27:54.790 the fiber is going into it next slide 00:27:57.63000:27:57.64000:27:58.85000:27:58.860 and you can see that as we increase the 00:28:04.23000:28:04.240 ozone concentration from known no ozone 00:28:07.68000:28:07.690 for the red at the top down to 6000 ppm 00:28:11.34000:28:11.350 of ozone at the bottom we can make the 00:28:14.55000:28:14.560 carbon monoxide go away and if we 00:28:17.37000:28:17.380 combine these we've actually done in two 00:28:19.50000:28:19.510 different runs one where we had 7 00:28:21.66000:28:21.670 minutes of time with exposure and 00:28:23.58000:28:23.590 another with three and a half next slide 00:28:25.47000:28:25.48000:28:26.96000:28:26.970 these actually all these points fall on 00:28:30.03000:28:30.040 a nice line when we think about it in 00:28:31.95000:28:31.960 terms of the product of the 00:28:34.05000:28:34.060 concentration times the time that's an 00:28:36.54000:28:36.550 exposure and we get this wonderful 00:28:39.03000:28:39.040 straight line two different experiments 00:28:41.58000:28:41.590 two different times and so we think we 00:28:44.85000:28:44.860 understand how much ozone time exposure 00:28:48.30000:28:48.310 is needed in order to make this happen 00:28:51.12000:28:51.13000:28:54.17000:28:54.180 now we don't want the ozone to break 00:28:57.99000:28:58.000 down the basic properties of the fiber 00:29:00.48000:29:00.490 so that it will no longer make a good 00:29:02.58000:29:02.590 pellet 00:29:03.21000:29:03.220 so we took our ozone exposed fiber did 00:29:06.90000:29:06.910 another thermal gravimetric analysis on 00:29:09.48000:29:09.490 it you can see now we still have the 00:29:11.40000:29:11.410 Hemi cellulose the cellulose and the 00:29:13.35000:29:13.360 lignin particularly the lignin is 00:29:15.21000:29:15.220 important because that's what binds the 00:29:17.04000:29:17.050 pellet when you hot press it next slide 00:29:20.13000:29:20.14000:29:22.22000:29:22.230 so then we needed to see whether we 00:29:25.05000:29:25.060 could make this work in a real mill and 00:29:27.32000:29:27.330 so it should be easy to implement 00:29:30.47000:29:30.480 relatively low in cost and we recognize 00:29:34.17000:29:34.180 that the pellet market is currently 00:29:36.89000:29:36.900 depressed and so we need to be efficient 00:29:41.82000:29:41.830 and cost effective if we're going to 00:29:43.86000:29:43.870 have something that's going to actually 00:29:45.44000:29:45.450 make sense for anybody to use next slide 00:29:49.56000:29:49.57000:29:51.23000:29:51.240 so we went up to current renewable 00:29:54.84000:29:54.850 energy we had our ozone generators 00:29:59.44000:29:59.450 and a oxygen concentrator because what 00:30:03.36900:30:03.379 you'd really like to do is use 00:30:05.15900:30:05.169 relatively pure oxygen to go into the 00:30:07.95900:30:07.969 ozone generator fed that into the mill 00:30:11.13900:30:11.14900:30:12.18000:30:12.190 and you can see that then we had no 00:30:18.54900:30:18.559 exposure so we took some samples before 00:30:21.87900:30:21.889 we started putting ozone in started 00:30:25.59900:30:25.609 putting ozone in took three different 00:30:27.69900:30:27.709 samples you can't really tell them apart 00:30:29.76900:30:29.779 because they're overlaying one another 00:30:31.69000:30:31.700 down at zero so we have successfully 00:30:35.19900:30:35.209 made no CO pellets at roughly full-scale 00:30:40.35900:30:40.369 we had three of the five Mills going at 00:30:43.71900:30:43.729 the time in a normal production run so 00:30:47.76900:30:47.779 we're quite confident that we have a 00:30:49.77900:30:49.789 process now that is able to eliminate 00:30:55.14900:30:55.159 the problem of carbon monoxide eliminate 00:30:59.49900:30:59.509 the problem of the carbonyls and it will 00:31:03.19000:31:03.200 also for the soft wood pellets eliminate 00:31:06.71900:31:06.729 the terpene smell when we started up the 00:31:12.09900:31:12.109 ozone into in the mill you could snow 00:31:15.21900:31:15.229 very quickly the reduction in the turkey 00:31:19.83900:31:19.849 and smell the Alpha piney snow as the 00:31:25.44900:31:25.459 ozone also reacted with the turkey needs 00:31:29.91900:31:29.929 to break them up and reduce the miss a 00:31:32.56000:31:32.570 notary so next slide so you're going to 00:31:39.09900:31:39.109 hear shortly that that current is 00:31:42.00900:31:42.019 currently working on installing this and 00:31:45.03900:31:45.049 my certain is likely to want to help all 00:31:49.77900:31:49.789 of the New York State Mills to utilize 00:31:52.26900:31:52.279 the process and so we believe we can 00:31:55.14900:31:55.159 eliminate the potential for occupational 00:31:57.54900:31:57.559 and environmental exposures from stored 00:32:00.43000:32:00.440 wood pellets next slide and that's 00:32:06.53900:32:06.549 anything very much 00:32:10.66000:32:10.670 all right thank you very much dr. hockey 00:32:12.37000:32:12.380 next we're going to move into Sirians 00:32:16.50000:32:16.510 presentation with Kelly Ramsay which 00:32:19.09000:32:19.100 marketing director of carried 00:32:20.74000:32:20.750 renewable-energy 00:32:21.54000:32:21.550 Kelly go ahead and take it away all 00:32:24.94000:32:24.950 right hello everybody thank you for 00:32:27.25000:32:27.260 joining in today can you go to the next 00:32:30.79000:32:30.800 slide and then the following as well 00:32:35.10000:32:35.110 thank you I want to say thank you to 00:32:38.32000:32:38.330 everybody at Clarkson which is located 00:32:41.17000:32:41.180 in Potsdam New York just a couple towns 00:32:42.79000:32:42.800 over as well as Richard from clean air 00:32:46.29000:32:46.300 in Ogdensburg New York and I started 00:32:49.90000:32:49.910 which approach just a few years ago to 00:32:52.12000:32:52.130 see if we would be interested and 00:32:53.94000:32:53.950 essentially being that the testing 00:32:55.87000:32:55.880 facility for this new technology it had 00:32:59.02000:32:59.030 been brought to our attention through 00:33:00.61000:33:00.620 NYSERDA that there could possibly be a 00:33:03.22000:33:03.230 concern of the storage of wood pellets 00:33:05.38000:33:05.390 that could be as a safety concern for 00:33:07.36000:33:07.370 the consumers a couple years ago they 00:33:10.81000:33:10.820 had asked us does as manufacturers and 00:33:13.69000:33:13.700 then also to some of our stove retailers 00:33:16.63000:33:16.640 to start handing out you know hand 00:33:20.83000:33:20.840 plaits their handouts or pamphlets that 00:33:22.56000:33:22.570 essentially listed a required outdoor 00:33:25.60000:33:25.610 storage because of this issue so we from 00:33:28.99000:33:29.000 that we realized this was probably going 00:33:30.67000:33:30.680 to be something that we brought more 00:33:31.78000:33:31.790 into focus and it would be a concern 00:33:33.76000:33:33.770 that we'd want to address as well next 00:33:36.79000:33:36.800 slide and as many of you know that are 00:33:40.99000:33:41.000 probably on the line has a pellet 00:33:42.82000:33:42.830 manufacturer there's so many challenges 00:33:45.01000:33:45.020 today incredibly unpredictable weather 00:33:47.47000:33:47.480 patterns and oil prices and fluctuating 00:33:50.41000:33:50.420 exchange rates which can really make all 00:33:52.81000:33:52.820 of our jobs challenging you know we 00:33:55.36000:33:55.370 really always you know striving to move 00:33:58.06000:33:58.070 forward and battle these market 00:34:00.37000:34:00.380 conditions and having one more possible 00:34:03.36000:34:03.370 hurdle could really make this industry 00:34:06.19000:34:06.200 more challenging and with the concern of 00:34:09.73000:34:09.740 the carbon off-gassing and some of the 00:34:12.82000:34:12.830 reporting that we had read that people 00:34:14.05000:34:14.060 were becoming sick or even had died from 00:34:17.08000:34:17.090 it so it definitely was a concern for us 00:34:19.13900:34:19.149 and if there is any technology or method 00:34:21.94000:34:21.950 to make the consumer city 00:34:23.63000:34:23.640 and more confident amusing and storing 00:34:26.09000:34:26.100 wood pellets we felt like it was 00:34:27.92000:34:27.930 important to get involved and see if we 00:34:29.93000:34:29.940 could help this technology be developed 00:34:32.84000:34:32.850 and essentially be the the test subject 00:34:35.57000:34:35.580 or guinea pig for Clarkson next slide so 00:34:42.98000:34:42.990 I still had said earlier they did a 00:34:45.68000:34:45.690 study on some bulk loose wood pellets 00:34:48.20000:34:48.210 that were in the basement of my my 00:34:51.38000:34:51.390 parents home the nine tons fabric then 00:34:54.20000:34:54.210 with a wood pellet boiler setup and then 00:34:57.59000:34:57.600 they also tested the the warehouse where 00:35:01.22000:35:01.230 we stored at any times you know hundreds 00:35:03.89000:35:03.900 to even a couple thousand ton depending 00:35:06.56000:35:06.570 on the season of bagged wood pellets and 00:35:10.28000:35:10.290 then also the findings like phil has 00:35:13.01000:35:13.020 said the lab scale models were 00:35:14.69000:35:14.700 successful and introducing the ozone and 00:35:17.03000:35:17.040 eliminating the off gassing of CO and 00:35:19.88000:35:19.890 they had a very successful live test 00:35:23.69000:35:23.700 here this past fall that proved that 00:35:25.43000:35:25.440 they were able to eliminate the Co right 00:35:28.61000:35:28.620 now we have a full-scale commercial 00:35:30.98000:35:30.990 system in place and we are testing out 00:35:34.61000:35:34.620 on a daily basis just trying to make 00:35:37.52000:35:37.530 sure that we've got everything running 00:35:38.99000:35:39.000 so we're currently in the monitoring 00:35:40.85000:35:40.860 phase and reporting to Phil and then 00:35:44.30000:35:44.310 also Richard and Mohammed from Clarkson 00:35:47.51000:35:47.520 to keep everybody up to date on what 00:35:49.91000:35:49.920 we're finding next slide and this is 00:35:54.59000:35:54.600 just a picture to kind of give you a 00:35:56.15000:35:56.160 better idea of you the fabric bin 00:35:58.19000:35:58.200 storage in the basement there at my 00:35:59.69000:35:59.700 parents next slide 00:36:04.76000:36:04.770 and just a picture of a bad wood pellets 00:36:08.90000:36:08.910 in our warehouse go ahead to the next 00:36:13.28000:36:13.290 slide so now from here I've got Richard 00:36:17.63000:36:17.640 on the last piece from Queen air he 00:36:19.88000:36:19.890 develops the of the ozone machines 00:36:22.42000:36:22.430 Mohammed from Clarkson and Phil forgive 00:36:25.01000:36:25.020 me I may have I'm not sure if that was 00:36:26.81000:36:26.820 Stefania or Lydia in that picture so if 00:36:29.09000:36:29.100 I put the wrong persons name I do 00:36:30.62000:36:30.630 apologize and then still hockey here on 00:36:33.62000:36:33.630 the right side 00:36:34.76000:36:34.770 yeah that's Stefania okay on next slide 00:36:41.26000:36:41.270 so the process of putting removing the 00:36:45.85900:36:45.869 carbon monoxide you know that's there to 00:36:49.04000:36:49.050 benefit our employees here so there's 00:36:51.68000:36:51.690 the work hazard of being exposed to the 00:36:53.57000:36:53.580 carbon and then also to the the 00:36:56.45000:36:56.460 homeowner but in doing so we have to 00:36:58.22000:36:58.230 inject the ozone and into this process 00:37:01.40000:37:01.410 so for us we wanted to make sure 00:37:03.55000:37:03.560 although we're removing one harmful you 00:37:07.10000:37:07.110 know gas that we're also making sure 00:37:09.14000:37:09.150 that our employees aren't overexposed to 00:37:11.59900:37:11.609 any ozone so each time Clarkson has been 00:37:15.95000:37:15.960 here they've made sure that the that the 00:37:19.40000:37:19.410 injection is going you know it's being 00:37:21.95000:37:21.960 absorbed into the wood that's our that's 00:37:23.66000:37:23.670 our hope is to make sure that it's fully 00:37:25.19000:37:25.200 absorbed into the wood fiber and that 00:37:27.32000:37:27.330 there is no excess in the air that would 00:37:30.34900:37:30.359 be then exposed to go to our work force 00:37:33.91000:37:33.920 next slide we have a couple different 00:37:37.97000:37:37.980 monitors that we keep on hand the mill 00:37:41.15000:37:41.160 operators have this arrow quill 500 I've 00:37:45.20000:37:45.210 got a picture of it here with also a 00:37:46.91000:37:46.920 secondary sensor which we purchased as 00:37:49.01000:37:49.020 well they keep that on hand right out 00:37:52.16000:37:52.170 there in the mill they can it's mobile 00:37:54.08000:37:54.090 they can walk around of it with it but 00:37:55.79000:37:55.800 they also keep it right there with them 00:37:57.32000:37:57.330 in the operating room at all times and 00:37:59.54000:37:59.550 then this smaller easy 1x is something I 00:38:03.74000:38:03.750 keep in my office just for my own sense 00:38:06.65000:38:06.660 of comfort to make sure that the ozone 00:38:09.56000:38:09.570 exposures aren't of any concern to any 00:38:12.38000:38:12.390 of us here in the office and so far I 00:38:14.93000:38:14.940 haven't seen anything that's been of 00:38:17.00000:38:17.010 concern 00:38:17.70000:38:17.710 so we're very happy about that and these 00:38:21.45000:38:21.460 are about I think these arrow quill was 00:38:23.81900:38:23.829 around 14 or 1500 and then the easy 1x 00:38:28.74000:38:28.750 was around 400 next slide now what we've 00:38:35.76000:38:35.770 been doing when we do these tests is 00:38:38.97000:38:38.980 we're filling some 10 gallon steel drums 00:38:42.21000:38:42.220 about halfway and putting carbon 00:38:45.26000:38:45.270 monitors steel monitors these USB 00:38:48.00000:38:48.010 monitors within it right now we're kind 00:38:51.00000:38:51.010 of testing on average every 10 days to 00:38:53.46000:38:53.470 see that the carbon monoxide is dropping 00:38:56.25000:38:56.260 and then there's also a temperature 00:38:58.62000:38:58.630 monitor that I will put in one but right 00:39:00.18000:39:00.190 now we're doing 6 Co monitors each time 00:39:03.56900:39:03.579 we do the test next slide so the ozone 00:39:10.29000:39:10.300 is injected into the wood before it is 00:39:12.42000:39:12.430 pelletized as phil was explaining more 00:39:15.05900:39:15.069 detail and then our system here at the 00:39:17.60900:39:17.619 middle is designed to shut off this this 00:39:20.60900:39:20.619 technology automatically if the pellet 00:39:22.92000:39:22.930 will happen to shut down that way there 00:39:24.45000:39:24.460 isn't just free you know exposure of 00:39:27.18000:39:27.190 ozone in the air and the samples of 00:39:30.39000:39:30.400 pellets are taken and stored in the 00:39:32.30900:39:32.319 steel drums like I've mentioned before 00:39:33.96000:39:33.970 it's very simple to do it's not 00:39:36.79900:39:36.809 labor-intensive it can really be done in 00:39:39.05900:39:39.069 just a handful of minutes and then I 00:39:41.40000:39:41.410 send the I export the data to the to the 00:39:45.90000:39:45.910 team over at Clarkson and also to to 00:39:47.94000:39:47.950 Phil for for them to kind of give us 00:39:49.77000:39:49.780 some feedback of how things are going 00:39:51.83900:39:51.849 and one thing he has mentioned psyllid 00:39:54.87000:39:54.880 mentioned earlier was the terpenes it is 00:39:57.44000:39:57.450 like night and day 00:39:59.16000:39:59.170 um I'm I'll admit I'm pretty immune to 00:40:02.94000:40:02.950 the smell of wood 5 Hertz now being here 00:40:05.76000:40:05.770 for for nine years however when we make 00:40:08.13000:40:08.140 soft wood pellets I find it's incredibly 00:40:10.85900:40:10.869 strong smelling but with the ozone it 00:40:13.68000:40:13.690 just completely depletes that really 00:40:16.07900:40:16.089 heavy dense smell in the air the 00:40:18.48000:40:18.490 terpenes so you really do notice a 00:40:21.45000:40:21.460 significant difference next slide 00:40:26.53000:40:26.540 and here's a picture of Phil and Richard 00:40:29.29000:40:29.300 with the the air air concentrator and 00:40:33.82000:40:33.830 then down below is Mohammed and so 00:40:37.09000:40:37.100 within ozone machine from speaking with 00:40:40.17000:40:40.180 Richard one thing that he's trying to to 00:40:43.78000:40:43.790 do right now is make this 2 to buck 00:40:47.32000:40:47.330 system possibly into a singular unit so 00:40:50.23000:40:50.240 it's even smaller one less thing that 00:40:52.33000:40:52.340 you'd have to install so it would really 00:40:54.40000:40:54.410 wouldn't take up much space at all next 00:40:58.75000:40:58.760 slide so the investment overall with the 00:41:03.85000:41:03.860 ozone machine the USD monitors and the 00:41:10.29000:41:10.300 the ozone monitors as well is relatively 00:41:13.99000:41:14.000 low it's less than ten thousand and like 00:41:16.66000:41:16.670 I mentioned before the testing is very 00:41:18.16000:41:18.170 simple and the system itself takes up 00:41:21.28000:41:21.290 minimal space and it was installed 00:41:23.53000:41:23.540 within minutes next slide and really for 00:41:30.70000:41:30.710 us as a manufacturer our hope is that 00:41:33.64000:41:33.650 the technology can be easily adopted by 00:41:37.12000:41:37.130 any pellet manufacturer it's you know 00:41:39.64000:41:39.650 it's not just to us it's to absolutely 00:41:41.38000:41:41.390 anybody who would be interested in you 00:41:43.84000:41:43.850 know I to help the industry as a whole 00:41:45.19000:41:45.200 increase our market share the outcome 00:41:48.34000:41:48.350 from the technology battles any fear 00:41:50.44000:41:50.450 regarding the safety of wood pellet 00:41:52.63000:41:52.640 storage that could affect the market and 00:41:54.81000:41:54.820 we hope that the system will eliminate 00:41:58.15000:41:58.160 any occupational hazard also to our 00:42:01.42000:42:01.430 employees that work in the warehouse 00:42:02.86000:42:02.870 that are exposed to you know higher 00:42:04.93000:42:04.940 higher concentrations as well to any 00:42:08.44000:42:08.450 homeowner that made that wood pellet 00:42:10.84000:42:10.850 safety next slide 00:42:16.07900:42:16.089 and I just wanted to thank everybody 00:42:18.68900:42:18.699 that's been involved and again if you 00:42:20.21900:42:20.229 have any questions let me know 00:42:25.73000:42:25.740 and that's it all right Thank You Kelly 00:42:29.88000:42:29.890 we really appreciate you taking the time 00:42:31.71000:42:31.720 to join us today and let us know about a 00:42:33.99000:42:34.000 Kieran's role in this elimination of 00:42:36.89000:42:36.900 harmful carbon monoxide now we're going 00:42:40.20000:42:40.210 to move into the question and answer 00:42:41.54900:42:41.559 session moderated by myself and John 00:42:44.73000:42:44.740 Ackerley John are you still on mute are 00:42:47.09900:42:47.109 you ready to ask some questions 00:42:49.17000:42:49.180 yep ready to go all right why don't you 00:42:52.71000:42:52.720 get started for us and if you have any 00:42:55.02000:42:55.030 questions throughout this session I just 00:42:56.57900:42:56.589 continue to type in your questions and 00:42:58.77000:42:58.780 we'll get to them as soon as we get 00:43:01.41000:43:01.420 through all the other ones that have 00:43:03.05900:43:03.069 been queued up for us okay we have a 00:43:06.08900:43:06.099 half dozen good questions so far I have 00:43:08.09900:43:08.109 a couple myself that I'll get to later 00:43:09.72000:43:09.730 if you know we're being asked and this 00:43:13.98000:43:13.990 first one is really more for you Peter 00:43:16.31900:43:16.329 but just everyone always wants to know 00:43:18.03000:43:18.040 if this presentation will be available 00:43:20.46000:43:20.470 later and and yes B Tech makes them 00:43:23.97000:43:23.980 available 00:43:24.90000:43:24.910 well said unless everyone who's 00:43:26.43000:43:26.440 registered and make them available 00:43:27.72000:43:27.730 publicly in the few days after the 00:43:30.27000:43:30.280 webinar all right Peter yeah that's 00:43:33.59900:43:33.609 right in a couple days probably by 00:43:35.91000:43:35.920 Wednesday or Thursday we'll have to 00:43:37.31900:43:37.329 stuff on the B Tech website shortly 00:43:39.35900:43:39.369 after that we'll send up a follow-up 00:43:40.79900:43:40.809 email to everybody who joined us today 00:43:42.51000:43:42.520 and registered for the webinar with the 00:43:44.28000:43:44.290 lake's 00:43:44.88000:43:44.890 to the presentation as well as the 00:43:46.85900:43:46.869 recording to this webinar so you can 00:43:49.74000:43:49.750 enjoy all the fun again on your own time 00:43:53.96000:43:53.970 okay great well one down several people 00:43:56.67000:43:56.680 have asked the question yes this is 00:43:58.60900:43:58.619 still for Android Kellie 00:44:02.24000:44:02.250 concerned about ozone as an air 00:44:06.63000:44:06.640 pollution problem both in the plant and 00:44:09.63000:44:09.640 and I guess potentially even outside I 00:44:14.13000:44:14.140 don't know how much ozone is there but 00:44:16.02000:44:16.030 what happens to that ozone after it 00:44:18.07900:44:18.089 passes through the Pelops 00:44:19.97000:44:19.980 how are you sure that it's not a danger 00:44:23.37000:44:23.380 in and of itself 00:44:27.82000:44:27.830 that may be a better question for Phil 00:44:30.58000:44:30.590 you may understand them more thoroughly 00:44:32.63000:44:32.640 than I will yep yeah I expected that's 00:44:37.18000:44:37.190 that's my catch here yeah first of all 00:44:41.81000:44:41.820 what we're trying to do is to insert the 00:44:47.51000:44:47.520 right amount of ozone so that most of it 00:44:50.42000:44:50.430 is going to be reacted with the fatty 00:44:53.66000:44:53.670 acids and terpenes that are being in 00:44:58.07000:44:58.080 that are in the wood so that the amount 00:45:00.35000:45:00.360 of residual ozone is relatively small 00:45:04.82000:45:04.830 and so you know the there's always ozone 00:45:11.15000:45:11.160 in the atmosphere in the atmosphere has 00:45:14.18000:45:14.190 a lot of volume so the eight to ten 00:45:18.56000:45:18.570 grams an hour that we're making in for 00:45:23.33000:45:23.340 for this hundred thousand pounds of 00:45:27.59000:45:27.600 pellets a year a hundred thousand tons 00:45:29.81000:45:29.820 of calots in here is pretty small so 00:45:34.16000:45:34.170 it's going out with the ventilation air 00:45:37.76000:45:37.770 and is rapidly diluted so that you know 00:45:42.17000:45:42.180 in the vicinity you you would not notice 00:45:44.36000:45:44.370 any increased ozone concentration and if 00:45:48.44000:45:48.450 anything is going to actually reduce the 00:45:50.72000:45:50.730 ozone in the downwind because we don't 00:45:53.36000:45:53.370 longer putting the terpenes and some of 00:45:55.49000:45:55.500 the other reactive organic compounds out 00:45:59.87000:45:59.880 in the air that would actually enhance 00:46:01.85000:46:01.860 the atmospheric ozone in the vicinity so 00:46:07.72000:46:07.730 you know we we want to make sure that 00:46:11.33000:46:11.340 that we look at each plant and design 00:46:13.94000:46:13.950 where we put it in so that it's it's 00:46:16.94000:46:16.950 well contained first of all because we 00:46:19.46000:46:19.470 want it to contact the fiber not escape 00:46:23.90000:46:23.910 into the plant and if we do that right 00:46:27.35000:46:27.360 then there's very little residual left 00:46:29.87000:46:29.880 to either escape into the plant and you 00:46:32.66000:46:32.670 know the measurements we've made so far 00:46:34.16000:46:34.170 pretty low or be vented out of the plant 00:46:39.65000:46:39.660 out of the building into the ambient 00:46:41.69000:46:41.700 atmosphere okay um thank you here's 00:46:46.70000:46:46.710 another question would you get similar 00:46:49.46000:46:49.470 results to hardwoods if you were working 00:46:52.13000:46:52.140 with agricultural residues and grasses 00:46:55.48000:46:55.490 yes along those lines with wood chips do 00:46:59.05900:46:59.069 you would you expect that you know these 00:47:02.35900:47:02.369 finishes of wood chips yeah we've done 00:47:05.45000:47:05.460 wood chips um it basically is a surface 00:47:08.08900:47:08.099 to volume issue the surface to volume 00:47:11.56900:47:11.579 for chips is lower than it is for for 00:47:14.48000:47:14.490 pellets and the amount of carbon oxide 00:47:18.65000:47:18.660 scaled about about has the surface area 00:47:24.20000:47:24.210 per unit mass of wood agricultural 00:47:31.30900:47:31.319 things it would depend on what else what 00:47:36.41000:47:36.420 else is there I don't have as good a 00:47:38.96000:47:38.970 feeling for what would be in things like 00:47:42.17000:47:42.180 grass pellets that would be potentially 00:47:45.01900:47:45.029 Otto oxidizable and use these moderate 00:47:50.26900:47:50.279 chain fatty acids are pretty susceptible 00:47:53.39000:47:53.400 to Auto oxidation weather there's 00:47:56.72000:47:56.730 similar kinds of things in plant 00:48:01.13000:48:01.140 residues I'm not sure we would need to 00:48:04.70000:48:04.710 do some testing but that'd be easy to do 00:48:07.35900:48:07.369 okay um 00:48:09.74000:48:09.750 it's from Robert that Linkletter how 00:48:12.95000:48:12.960 many pellet machines can one ozone 00:48:15.79900:48:15.809 machine handle well again in this case 00:48:19.70000:48:19.710 in for this mill it's set up so that you 00:48:24.68000:48:24.690 have one process stream of fiber coming 00:48:27.98000:48:27.990 in from the drawing milling operation 00:48:31.88000:48:31.890 that then feeds five presses and you 00:48:37.60900:48:37.619 know so that that by putting it into the 00:48:40.01000:48:40.020 main input auger and and then 00:48:44.01900:48:44.029 potentially doing a little bit more 00:48:47.44000:48:47.450 feeding into the individual they hoppers 00:48:51.34900:48:51.359 for each press 00:48:53.71000:48:53.720 the one ozone generator suffice is for 00:48:58.06000:48:58.070 the whole plant now if you had you know 00:49:02.70000:49:02.710 totally separate systems you know 00:49:07.08000:49:07.090 depending on where they are and how far 00:49:09.97000:49:09.980 you'd have to transport the ozone and 00:49:11.89000:49:11.900 other sorts of things it might be easier 00:49:14.05000:49:14.060 to do to smaller units than one big unit 00:49:18.22000:49:18.230 I mean you know I pellet mills are not 00:49:22.12000:49:22.130 not cookie cutter so you know there may 00:49:25.69000:49:25.700 need to be a little bit of design 00:49:27.07000:49:27.080 considerations for each separate mill 00:49:31.71000:49:31.720 and this is from your mo Metz what is 00:49:35.62000:49:35.630 the cost of the ozone system for the 00:49:39.88000:49:39.890 whole mill well the ocean generator was 00:49:44.47000:49:44.480 about five thousand the ozone monitor 00:49:49.30000:49:49.310 was about fourteen hundred each of the 00:49:52.48000:49:52.490 co monitors is about a hundred and forty 00:49:57.49000:49:57.500 dollars in each end and the ten gallon 00:50:00.99000:50:01.000 drums are like fifty or sixty bucks 00:50:04.12000:50:04.130 apiece so that's really the expense and 00:50:07.75000:50:07.760 you know the tubing is is trivial okay 00:50:12.10000:50:12.110 and a question from Rob Rizzo 00:50:14.56000:50:14.570 how would this groundbreaking research 00:50:16.63000:50:16.640 be brought to the consumer have 00:50:19.33000:50:19.340 discussions started with PFI to 00:50:22.60000:50:22.610 recognize Co free pellets from typical 00:50:25.84000:50:25.850 pellets we haven't done any of that yet 00:50:29.74000:50:29.750 we wanted to get through these tests at 00:50:33.12000:50:33.130 at current to make sure that we had it 00:50:36.58000:50:36.590 on a routine operating basis and then as 00:50:40.84000:50:40.850 I indicated nicer that has indicated an 00:50:43.48000:50:43.490 interest in trying to replicate this at 00:50:46.39000:50:46.400 other new york state mills and at that 00:50:50.38000:50:50.390 point you know somewhere down the line 00:50:54.01000:50:54.020 fairly soon we would love to have the 00:50:58.86000:50:58.870 consumer educated to this potential 00:51:01.36000:51:01.370 problem and and you know again we don't 00:51:05.41000:51:05.420 want to cause disruption in in the 00:51:09.58000:51:09.590 pellet business you know what we'd like 00:51:15.43000:51:15.440 to be in a position to do is roll is out 00:51:18.15000:51:18.160 after the solutions already in place and 00:51:21.43000:51:21.440 people can be assured that you know when 00:51:27.07000:51:27.080 we we have timely recognition of a 00:51:31.18000:51:31.190 potential problem and eliminated that 00:51:34.15000:51:34.160 potential okay 00:51:39.22000:51:39.230 there's an emergent couple questions 00:51:42.01000:51:42.020 Glenn Robinson who runs the pellet plant 00:51:46.63000:51:46.640 in Pennsylvania the mother's surprised 00:51:52.21000:51:52.220 that the studies you've done a more 00:51:54.73000:51:54.740 based on looking at larger systems and 00:51:58.51000:51:58.520 there's only one home involved and that 00:52:00.25000:52:00.260 was a 10-ton system and it's a policy 00:52:05.59000:52:05.600 getting ahead of the studies yes there 00:52:09.37000:52:09.380 haven't been a lot of studies done on 00:52:10.84000:52:10.850 homes with a three tons and Glenn is 00:52:16.51000:52:16.520 saying that he's they've done studies 00:52:18.70000:52:18.710 looking at one four six time zones 00:52:21.30000:52:21.310 including getting pelts wet and they've 00:52:25.12000:52:25.130 never been able to get any significant 00:52:28.33000:52:28.340 seer readings so what's the basis for 00:52:32.46000:52:32.470 the polynomial my service initial 00:52:38.83000:52:38.840 efforts wrong commercial scale units of 00:52:41.83000:52:41.840 schools and museums and so that's why we 00:52:46.72000:52:46.730 we focused you know they asked us to 00:52:49.30000:52:49.310 focus on the bins that they put in place 00:52:53.26000:52:53.270 just to make sure that you know the 00:52:56.53000:52:56.540 state of New York was not creating a 00:52:58.21000:52:58.220 hazard and so and then you know again we 00:53:03.67000:53:03.680 as part of this we did confined space 00:53:09.07000:53:09.080 training helped them set up whatever 00:53:11.74000:53:11.750 they needed to do to comply so yes 00:53:17.49900:53:17.509 you know the big thing is that that most 00:53:21.24900:53:21.259 pellets are stored long enough that you 00:53:26.04900:53:26.059 probably not a lot of issues in in homes 00:53:31.44900:53:31.459 with smaller bins but it was a 00:53:34.02900:53:34.039 sufficient concern that renewable heat 00:53:36.21900:53:36.229 New York required outside the structure 00:53:41.33900:53:41.349 pellet storage and so if we all have no 00:53:47.73900:53:47.749 Soccio pellets that can go away and 00:53:51.54900:53:51.559 eliminate that constraint and you know 00:53:55.26900:53:55.279 my understanding at least some of the 00:53:57.45900:53:57.469 other states were were looking at what 00:53:59.62000:53:59.630 New York had done and potentially would 00:54:01.68900:54:01.699 replicate it so again if we can head 00:54:05.76900:54:05.779 that off at the past why not and you 00:54:08.46900:54:08.479 know given relatively limited costs of 00:54:11.31900:54:11.329 doing this it seemed something worth 00:54:14.88900:54:14.899 doing okay thank you 00:54:18.92900:54:18.939 the question Peter McVie Justin's 00:54:22.68900:54:22.699 following to that is their plan to reach 00:54:24.27900:54:24.289 out regionally not just New York that 00:54:26.85900:54:26.869 pellet manufactures I love them having 00:54:29.51900:54:29.529 similar solutions well again you know 00:54:37.20900:54:37.219 we're pointy-headed academics so you 00:54:42.33900:54:42.349 know we've partnered with this one ozone 00:54:45.72900:54:45.739 generator manufacturer and so you know 00:54:50.55900:54:50.569 I'm not sure how this gets turned into a 00:54:53.55900:54:53.569 business model but you know I would as 00:54:58.44900:54:58.459 to say it's as Kelly pointed out it's 00:55:01.32900:55:01.339 relatively easy to do once once we see 00:55:04.74900:55:04.759 the layout of the mill so you know I 00:55:08.73900:55:08.749 think this is something that could be 00:55:11.79900:55:11.809 implemented pretty straightforwardly ok 00:55:16.17900:55:16.189 thanks and a question from my dear 00:55:17.94900:55:17.959 moments' New York what's they asking 00:55:23.34900:55:23.359 about the results of the off gassing 00:55:25.23900:55:25.249 when ozone is added is it just you and 00:55:28.77900:55:28.789 co2 and is there any concern about 00:55:31.18000:55:31.190 the oxygen to the point where it's a 00:55:34.15000:55:34.160 combustion concern no that doesn't give 00:55:37.54000:55:37.550 off oxygen in well and it gives off 00:55:41.38000:55:41.390 oxygen but again we're looking at very 00:55:44.62000:55:44.630 small concentrations I mean you're 00:55:47.07900:55:47.089 putting 10 grams of ozone an hour into I 00:55:54.80900:55:54.819 forget thousands of pounds of of what so 00:56:00.33900:56:00.349 the amount of oxygen we're adding is 00:56:03.28000:56:03.290 trivial so no there's no real issues 00:56:06.13000:56:06.140 there ok then come Peter jhula bitch so 00:56:13.00000:56:13.010 their safety mission concern for wood 00:56:15.13000:56:15.140 dust pile from sawmill operations in 00:56:18.97000:56:18.980 pallet manufacturing well again the 00:56:23.26000:56:23.270 question is what's what's your 00:56:24.70000:56:24.710 ventilation I mean certainly those will 00:56:26.71000:56:26.720 be off gassing these materials but you 00:56:30.55000:56:30.560 know 10 sawmills tend to be fairly open 00:56:33.75000:56:33.760 buildings with a fairly high ventilation 00:56:36.64000:56:36.650 rate and and so it's hard to see how 00:56:42.19000:56:42.200 easily I mean you could certainly put 00:56:45.48000:56:45.490 ozone into your saw dust collection 00:56:49.00000:56:49.010 system and eliminate the the issue that 00:56:53.23000:56:53.240 way ok and Peter had jump in if there's 00:57:00.60900:57:00.619 some questions you and ask air else I'll 00:57:02.85900:57:02.869 just keep going um custom another one 00:57:06.43000:57:06.440 from Peter McVie in addition to the so 00:57:09.43000:57:09.440 you may have answered this that this 00:57:12.06900:57:12.079 also may be a good run for you Kelly in 00:57:15.25000:57:15.260 addition to the up hunt ozone equipment 00:57:17.34900:57:17.359 cost what is the operating cost for 00:57:20.76000:57:20.770 managing handling the equipment over 00:57:23.55900:57:23.569 time 00:57:25.76000:57:25.770 um I mean we have we haven't been doing 00:57:28.89000:57:28.900 it long enough where we were I I'd see 00:57:31.04900:57:31.059 where there were there'd be any 00:57:32.52000:57:32.530 additional cost other than possibly 00:57:35.88000:57:35.890 having to just calibrate the sensors 00:57:38.57900:57:38.589 once a year you know you can send that 00:57:41.91000:57:41.920 to the company and they will go 00:57:43.62000:57:43.630 calibrate it for you we bought an 00:57:45.21000:57:45.220 additional sensor with the Eric we'll 00:57:48.38000:57:48.390 just just so we'd have one on hand when 00:57:50.88000:57:50.890 we were sending that out but other than 00:57:54.45000:57:54.460 that just replacement batteries for the 00:57:56.94000:57:56.950 for the USB Co monitors and that's all 00:58:01.74000:58:01.750 I'm familiar with that I could see as 00:58:03.51000:58:03.520 being um any additional operating cost 00:58:06.05900:58:06.069 and list fills aware of something that 00:58:07.95000:58:07.960 could arise long term I'm sure there 00:58:12.51000:58:12.520 must be some maintenance cost on the 00:58:14.25000:58:14.260 ozone generator but in talking with 00:58:16.65000:58:16.660 Richard he saw that as being something 00:58:19.10900:58:19.119 between 500 and 1,000 dollars a year 00:58:26.08900:58:26.099 they thank you now a question from Paul 00:58:28.58900:58:28.599 Miller does ozone treatment 00:58:31.14000:58:31.150 significantly change physical properties 00:58:33.53900:58:33.549 of the fiber the pellets I guess is any 00:58:38.13000:58:38.140 chance that the BTU value could be 00:58:40.95000:58:40.960 lowered no we checked that and it 00:58:44.54900:58:44.559 doesn't I mean again you could see in 00:58:46.95000:58:46.960 that thermal gravimetric analysis of the 00:58:50.42000:58:50.430 6000 ppm exposed material that you still 00:58:56.25000:58:56.260 have the Hemi cellulose the cellulose 00:58:58.17000:58:58.180 and lignin and the the calorific content 00:59:01.10900:59:01.119 was the same essentially the same as the 00:59:03.87000:59:03.880 untreated that the amount of fatty acids 00:59:07.34900:59:07.359 in there is to say is of the order of 3 00:59:09.66000:59:09.670 to 8 percent so that and and you know 00:59:13.79900:59:13.809 some of that residue is going to stay 00:59:15.63000:59:15.640 there that the less volatile parts will 00:59:17.97000:59:17.980 stay in in the wood so you're not losing 00:59:22.55900:59:22.569 any calorific content and and at least 00:59:27.45000:59:27.460 as far as we can see the the durability 00:59:31.92000:59:31.930 of the pellets and that sort of thing 00:59:33.96000:59:33.970 didn't seem to be any different Kelly 00:59:35.78900:59:35.799 did you have you noticed any difference 00:59:38.94000:59:38.950 no no nothing has seemed to change on 00:59:41.94000:59:41.950 our end 00:59:45.84900:59:45.859 okay great not give address just a 00:59:50.50900:59:50.519 little bit Phil but this is from 00:59:53.01900:59:53.029 computertv how long would it take for 00:59:55.48900:59:55.499 other pellet plant plants to implement 00:59:58.64000:59:58.650 these changes to their manufacturing 01:00:00.34901:00:00.359 process it depends on how fast Richard 01:00:04.03901:00:04.049 can crank have house on generators or 01:00:06.20001:00:06.210 other people I mean there are a number 01:00:07.94001:00:07.950 of companies that make ozone generators 01:00:10.37001:00:10.380 and ozone concentrators so I would think 01:00:15.62001:00:15.630 that could be done over a matter of 01:00:18.60901:00:18.619 certainly in less than a year and 01:00:20.71901:00:20.729 probably in six months if everybody 01:00:22.96901:00:22.979 wanted to really cure up fast looks okay 01:00:28.60901:00:28.619 I'm Ben Robinson how long how many tons 01:00:36.10901:00:36.119 can the ozone machine handle at one 01:00:40.84901:00:40.859 point in time Matt how large of a yeah 01:00:48.37001:00:48.380 we would size the ozone we would I sized 01:00:51.65001:00:51.660 the ozone generator to the to the flow 01:00:54.79901:00:54.809 of fiber and so you know again you might 01:00:59.69001:00:59.700 you might need need to buy a bigger or 01:01:02.87001:01:02.880 smaller 01:01:03.38001:01:03.390 and again the five thousand dollar one 01:01:08.74901:01:08.759 was one that would cover this this 01:01:11.34901:01:11.359 hundred thousand ten a year and you 01:01:14.02901:01:14.039 might have to scale it up by say as much 01:01:18.28901:01:18.299 as fifty percent in cost to go up to 01:01:21.20001:01:21.210 three or four times the ozone generation 01:01:23.66001:01:23.670 I say question is more how much fiber 01:01:31.13001:01:31.140 can a treat in an hour as much as you 01:01:36.10901:01:36.119 make if we put the right amount of ozone 01:01:37.96901:01:37.979 in so I mean what's what's your what's 01:01:42.34901:01:42.359 your flow Kelly um beach beach mill yeah 01:01:48.62001:01:48.630 you priced I think is around 13 to 14 01:01:50.71901:01:50.729 tonne per hour 01:01:55.11001:01:55.120 depending on what species 01:02:00.41001:02:00.420 okay and the question from Robert 01:02:03.24001:02:03.250 Linkletter do we lose our green label we 01:02:06.93001:02:06.940 enjoy now if we have to explain to our 01:02:09.12001:02:09.130 consumers that the OVA and we inject 01:02:11.01001:02:11.020 will not hurt them or ultimately the 01:02:13.17001:02:13.180 environment I would hope not I mean I 01:02:17.73001:02:17.740 think if we think if we explain it 01:02:19.92001:02:19.930 properly you know there's certainly no 01:02:23.88001:02:23.890 residual ozone with the pellets I mean 01:02:27.45001:02:27.460 it's a gas it's it's gone by the time 01:02:30.51001:02:30.520 the stuff goes into the bag so or into 01:02:35.70001:02:35.710 the bulk storage container so I think 01:02:39.24001:02:39.250 with with some proper educational 01:02:42.90001:02:42.910 material we can make it clear that that 01:02:46.91001:02:46.920 you know we're making making a greener 01:02:50.31001:02:50.320 pellet because it's not doing anything 01:02:53.40001:02:53.410 that it's going to harm anybody all 01:02:57.90001:02:57.910 right yeah I have a question of my own 01:03:01.73001:03:01.740 this is Norfolk OH but does any European 01:03:06.48001:03:06.490 country that you know require helps be 01:03:09.72001:03:09.730 stored outside or require ventilation in 01:03:13.98001:03:13.990 residential pellet Dems I don't honestly 01:03:18.57001:03:18.580 know I you know you know a lot of Europe 01:03:25.44001:03:25.450 has these large district heating systems 01:03:30.21001:03:30.220 that's the two units in which there were 01:03:33.09001:03:33.100 the problems and so that was the mode 01:03:37.29001:03:37.300 was to to develop you know the central 01:03:40.41001:03:40.420 heating system separate from the 01:03:42.66001:03:42.670 residences anyway so I you know I'm not 01:03:47.49001:03:47.500 aware I haven't really looked into the 01:03:50.04001:03:50.050 regulatory structure there are certainly 01:03:53.36001:03:53.370 you know guidance for ships and how 01:03:56.25001:03:56.260 they're supposed to be ventilated before 01:03:58.14001:03:58.150 anybody goes below deck when when they 01:04:01.80001:04:01.810 dock but you know sailors don't 01:04:04.86001:04:04.870 apparently didn't always pay attention 01:04:09.53001:04:09.540 and has there been any interest in 01:04:12.09001:04:12.100 Europe and your your 01:04:13.56001:04:13.570 worked for her you've got many yeah I've 01:04:17.10001:04:17.110 had a LeBaron quarry from we've been 01:04:19.29001:04:19.300 discussing it with bioenergy 2020 and 01:04:23.27001:04:23.280 they're potentially going to bring me 01:04:25.56001:04:25.570 over to go talk people to people 01:04:27.90001:04:27.910 I was also the another tfiih conference 01:04:33.45001:04:33.460 coming I'd be a good place to talk to 01:04:36.75001:04:36.760 folks a lot of and hopefully a lot of 01:04:40.13001:04:40.140 the next V Tech heating northeast is 01:04:45.03001:04:45.040 another another great venue sure well 01:04:48.57001:04:48.580 again the key was to have a clear 01:04:51.06001:04:51.070 full-scale demonstration so that we 01:04:54.57001:04:54.580 could really say we can make it work at 01:04:58.68001:04:58.690 a real process level okay thank these 01:05:05.48001:05:05.490 questions have tapered off be there 01:05:10.05001:05:10.060 anything else I think we're all good the 01:05:13.95001:05:13.960 questions have stopped flowing in so I 01:05:15.78001:05:15.790 guess we're going to end it right about 01:05:17.70001:05:17.710 here I want to thank everybody that was 01:05:19.89001:05:19.900 able to join us today for this 01:05:21.77001:05:21.780 presentation I also want to thank the 01:05:23.82001:05:23.830 Alliance for green heed for partnering 01:05:25.47001:05:25.480 with the biomass several Energy Council 01:05:27.03001:05:27.040 to host this webinar and really a 01:05:31.02001:05:31.030 fascinating topic and I want to thank 01:05:32.55001:05:32.560 our speakers dr. Phillip aapki and Kelly 01:05:35.88001:05:35.890 Karen Ramsey your renewable pellets for 01:05:38.64001:05:38.650 joining us today and sharing their 01:05:40.20001:05:40.210 insights with everybody again if anybody 01:05:42.81001:05:42.820 has any questions after this webinar 01:05:44.34001:05:44.350 ends in the next minute you can contact 01:05:47.31001:05:47.320 myself or John or the two presenters all 01:05:50.34001:05:50.350 their contact information around the 01:05:51.66001:05:51.670 slides which will be distributed with 01:05:53.28001:05:53.290 the webinar recording probably on 01:05:55.68001:05:55.690 Wednesday or Thursday in the meantime I 01:05:58.98001:05:58.990 want to again thank everybody for 01:06:00.51001:06:00.520 joining us and have a good afternoon 01:06:03.74001:06:03.750 thank you you as well for hostess 01:06:11.30001:06:11.310 you 01:06:13.62001:06:13.630
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